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60 Grit Testing ! ( hu ? )

old4570

John McDouall Stuart
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_IGP1785.JPG

Well !
Recently I has a CrazyFox knife go from a 50 slice fail ...
To a 550 slice fail .. Yeah ! , that's only a 500 slice difference or like 1000% ...
That's crazy !

I know in the past I have used a 80 grit diamond to lay down an edge on ( Softer / cheaper / steel ) and I gained edge holding .
So is this a case off samo / samo ?
Or was it the angle of the bevel that was responsible for what was essentially a horrific increase in performance . ( ? )
In anyway , this enquiring mind wants to know ! And you the reader are free to come along for a ride ! ( If you so chose )

We have some 10 previously disappointing knives , one of which is another CrazyFox D2 . And if mem serves that CFD2 did a 200 fail on a 220 grit wet stone grind . Be interesting to see what happens this time around .

The Grind

I have a 200mm X 25mm grinder wheel , being some 60 grit .
With the help of my 3D printer , I printed out some spacers so the grinder wheel would go on the wet stone grinder .
And that crazy CrazyFox knife was the first knife to be ground ( due to the monolithic build of the knife ) , as there was a lot of material to remove to make a new edge profile . And the result was a 1000% increase in edge holding . ( color me shocked and awe struck ) It's not every day you see a 1000% performance increase .
So I must start a process of elimination ..
Was it the GRIT , or was it the ANGLE of the bevel ?
And as this post might suggest , I am starting with the grit and 10 other disappointing knives .
Im too pooped to pop after hours of grinding ..
So as the clock ticks and tocks , I will try and get thru these 10 knives as soon as possible !
 

old4570

John McDouall Stuart
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Knife Number One = Civivi Dogma .......

I always thought this knife a DOG ! No matter the amount of effort , I could never come close to D2 performance levels .
The best number I ever achieved was something like a 200 slice fail on the rope .
And the worst was sub 100 .
I did buy some HRC files , and the 60 HRC file skates ... ( So the steel is hard - at least )
On the grinder we go - again !
This time with the 60 grit grinder wheel .
Have you already thought of a number , cos I was surprised when the knife finally gave up the slice at some six hundred slices of rope !
That's right , a poultry four hundred slice increase over the previous best .
Ok , so this is only knife number one in the test so far .
And a important question begs answering . If this 60 grit stone does this to disappointing knives ?
What will it do for good knives ? ( A question for another time )
Video soon :

 
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old4570

John McDouall Stuart
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Knife Number Two = CH3509

Apparently this knife took part in my bevel angle test & at 18 degrees did a 250 slice fail .
250 is far short of what I would expect from a D2 Knife .
So , this knife has been included in my 60 grit test series ..
Range of disappointing knives , re ground with a 60 grit grinder wheel on my wet stone grinder .

Well the results seem to speak for themselves as I threw in the towel at some five hundred and fifty slices .
This is only a three hundred slice increase on the previous best . ( " only " )
It would be fair to say I would never ( previously ) had expected this knife to make five fifty !
Even now typing this , it's hard to believe .

These results seem to almost fly in the face of common thinking !

Common Thinking

The finer you make the edge , the better the performance !
In other words a mirror polished edge should cut better and longer than a more poorly finished edge !
These results , are kind of the opposite of that .
Admittedly with what I would have originally labeled junk or poorly made knives ( blade steel ) .
Maybe you can make a silk purse out of a .........................

Anyways , we are two knives down a journey of discovery .
Only 8 more knives to go !

 

old4570

John McDouall Stuart
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Knives 3 & 4

Knife 3 = Leupold 440c


From memory a very disappointing knife .
I've had it for while and I dont remember it doing more than 100 slices of rope previously .
Steel does appear to be rather soft , unfortunately the blade is coated ..
So no HRC file test ..

But , with the 60 grit edge I pulled a 350 slice fail out of the hat .
All things considered , is a rather good result for 440c in general .
Just dont have any data on previous testing ( My bad ) . But I did consider it a junk knife .

Knife 4 = Gearbest D2

I will call this a mystery steel knife .
No way in heck is it D2 , in fact this pattern is known for Faux Steel .
So a 300 slice fail with the 60 grit edge is no surprise . Cos it was a huge disappointment from initial testing ( Again that lack of early data ) .
But , a 300 slice fail makes this knife useful . ( With the 60 grit edge )
Also the edge was very toothy , once more suggesting soft steel . Probably the toothiest blade tested so far .
I simply don't remember the previous numbers for this knife , but they were not good .
I guess for a $20 banana knife , 300 slices is ok ( 60 grit edge ) .

So it looks like improvement all around . 4 knives down .
And the 6 remaining knives are quite possibly equally disappointing !
I mean that Y-start failed at 50 once .. And after a lot of edge massaging , did it ever pass 100 ?
I should keep a log book ! ( Should )

 

old4570

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Knife test 5 is null and void ...
The edge rolled , thus invalidating the test .
Oh dear ! This is a cheap nasty piece of steel .
But it did strop back strong , so that's something ( I guess )
 

old4570

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Knife Number 6 = Spider ? co ( Is it a real one ? ) HRC file test = 55/50 .... The 55 just bit the steel

Yeah , time to continue 60 grit testing .
This knife exceeded my expectations .
On the rope we got to some six hundred and fifty slices . This is simply excellent performance from a knife that has disappointed for almost a decade .
It was a terribly windy day , but despite the wind I was able to get a result .
Now , six fifty is the realm of premium steels .. So for this knife to get into that region is surprising .
So another turn around for a disappointing knife .

Re sharpening ..

Two passes on the hard leather ( 1 pass each way = 2 ) , no slicing paper .
Four passes on the hard leather , it did slice paper but after a few inches hung up on a crease .
Six passes on the hard leather and it sliced the paper cleanly
Ten passes on the hard leather and it was getting smoother .
Sixteen passes and better again
At 20 passes on the hard leather , the knife was very smooth thru the paper .

 
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old4570

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Knife Number 7 = Y-start D2 (?) ( ? on the D2 )

So started off ok and then around 200 slices there was a small niggle .
At 250 slices there was an issue
And at 300 slices there was a fail .
At and the root of the problem a rolling edge .
Previously this was a really poor performing knife , Bad !
So at 300 ...... Well it stropped back easily ...
So not a very good knife .. But ......... That 60 grit stone is doing a bang up job ..
I know this knife previously failed at 50 , so 300 compared to that is ..............

 

old4570

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Knife No8 = Navy 440c
Yes , a past disappointing knife that ended up in the junk knife box .
I dont remember this knife making it past 100 slices previously .. But I can't be 100% , it might have gone slightly higher ?
Anyways , I am 100% sure it never made it anywhere near 350 slices ..
Video Soon ... It's a cool ( 13c ) wet day today .. So the paper slicing was done inside . ( Un avoidable )

 
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old4570

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Knife No9 = WithArmour 440c ( WithArmour Finches 440c - Factory 40 / 90 with a new bevel guided )
So we have some documented results for this knife ...
Factory 40 slices / guided 22 degree edge 90 slices ....
Oh dear! That's some poor performance !
Now how about that 60 grit edge , how did that go ?
Four hundred and fifty slice fail .. Oh you read that right !


Next knife and last knife is the Crazy Fox D2 previously tested @ 200 slices for a 220 grit wet stone grinder edge !
Again not very good , there be a review posted in which I was some what scathing ....
So one more knife to go !
 

old4570

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This will be a control test ..
Kershaw has been given a 60 grit edge matching the angle of the 220 grit grind ( previously tested ) ..
Also it's a video of me grinding , which may or may not be of interest .
 

old4570

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Knife No 10 = CrazyFox D2 ( Previous Result )

Ok , last knife in this series of tests .
Previously did 200 slices with the wet stone grinder edge ( 220 grit grinding wheel )
This time ....... 16 Deg C / 65% Humidity
Returned a Five Hundred Slice Fail . Only a Three Hundred Slice Increase on the previous result ! ( Only )
Though with this one , there was a change in the angle of the bevel .
Which is why , there will be a control test with the Kershaw .
This was entirely about making junk knives - not junk knives ! And some results were Ho hum and others quite outstanding .
Video Soon .

 
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old4570

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We has some McNasty weather on the East Coast ..
Was raining for most of today and the Humidity was 70% +
I really want to put the Kershaw to the rope ... Then I can start doing the angle tests ..
Tighten up the bevel 2 degrees at a time and see how it affects edge holding ( Gains )
 

old4570

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Kershaw Highball XL D2 (?) ? on D2 ...

We have a result ... @ 22 degree bevel ..
So previously we had a 220 grit wet stone cut edge @ 22 degrees for a 200 slice fail .
Now we have a 60 grit grinder wheel cut ( on my wet stone grinder machine ) 22 degree edge for a 300 slice fail .
So maintaining the angle of the bevel / edge saw a 50% increase ..
I might have to take the Kershaw into the angle testing as a disappointing knife .
Video soon .

So , I can ( we can ? ) extrapolate that 60 grit and a tighter bevel gives good results on knives that may have previously been disappointing with a more conventional edge . ( What would happen with a knife that tested well on a conventional edge ? - some other time )
Next I start on angle testing ...

 
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