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The Not so Magnificent 7

old4570

Ray Mears
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IMGP1415.JPG

7 Knives pulled out of my Junk Knife box !
7 Knives reground ..
7 Knives with fresh edges ...
7 Disappointing knives given another chance to not blow chunks !

From Left to Right

Chinese BG
Enlan EL-08 8cr13mov
CH-3509 D2 ( Allegedly )
Rat1 AUS-8
Herbertz 420
Marttiini 7 ( The disappointing one )
SRM 7096 12c27n

Keep an eye on this thread as I will be putting these to the rope .
 

old4570

Ray Mears
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The first knife to be put to the rope !
My CH3509 D2 ...
This knife regularly failed to surpass 150 slices with a 22 degree bevel / edge .

So the knife was reground for a tighter bevel this time around , I was aiming for between 20 and 18 degrees , and Nailed 18 degrees !
The edge did not roll ... No signs of a roll . no hints of a roll . The edge simply wore away .
250 slices @ 18 degrees is not impressive for D2 Tool Steel .. Though it is a lot better than 150 slices .
In the future I will have to try for an even tighter bevel , maybe 16 degrees .

(PS)
I have to note that my testing has evolved slightly over time to remove opinion from the equation .
And slowly it evolved to ... As long as the knife cuts paper - I cut rope !
When the knife physically fails to cut paper - the testing stops !
 

old4570

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Time for the Chinese BG knife .
If memory serves , this was a $16 to my door Knife .

Using that small sliver of paper for testing may have been a mistake .
But I always double check when I go back in the house with a fresh piece of paper .
So with fresh paper the BG passed @ 150 slices , and failed at 200 slices ..

200 Slices from a 20 degree edge ( checked ) .
That's not bad for a $16 knife ... And quite frankly puts some knives to shame !
Does the BG serve a purpose , I think it does .

@ 20 degrees and no edge roll , it looks like that edge can be pushed harder , to like maybe 18 degrees .
And we might pick up some more cutting power in the process . ( Or the edge might roll )
But in anyway , ........... The edge stropped back strong ..
So in the general sense ... No where near the worst knife you could buy ... In fact , it's very average !
 

old4570

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Rat1 AUS8 @ 18 degrees !
I detected edge roll at 100 slices and kept detecting edge roll right up to the fail point at 300 slices ..
Now a long time ago I standardized my edges at 22 degrees ..
For strength / durability and hopefully decent edge retention . As well the fact that most factory knives were / are almost bang on the money at 22 degrees .
Apparently , if your blade steel is made from decent steel then you do get everything you want . Strength / Durability / Edge Retention .
But , with your more budget steels , this is not necessarily the case .
So I am some what surprised about the rather dramatic edge retention increase .. Really I am .
Anyways , I standardized at 22 degrees to level the playing field for testing .. ( Limit the variables )
So now , I am testing what a tighter bevel brings to the table .

Hmmm ,
A) I have too many knives to fine tune all of them
B) This is a test
C) I am learning something ...

So .......... If you really care about performance and not just paying it lip service .
You would
A) Know the angle of your knife edge
B) Know the performance of your knife
C) Maybe push the edge geometry to further performance ( If that matters )

Simply put , if you can gain 100% ......... Then that is a lot from a slight change to your edge angle .
It matters not the blade steel , a performance increase is a performance increase .
This is part of my education , and anyone reading this is along for a free ride .

What am I learning ?
A) 22 degrees might be a decent starting point ( safe ) for a knife edge
B) Tightening the bevel a few degrees can seriously improve performance
C) Some steels can handle a tighter bevel , and some steels can not
D) The user has to chose an edge that will support the intended use for the knife
E) And if you dont try , you will never know

But that's just me , I have a thirst for knowledge and a box full of junk knives or knives I used to consider junk .

I never cared about this stuff 40 years ago .. The knife shaved hair = it was sharp ! ( End of story )
It was only after venturing into Chinese Knife Territory that edge retention became an issue .
I had knives going dull after opening a few envelopes .. ( What the parking lot )
So I got me a guided knife sharpener .. And the decent into edge retention began .
It's fascinating and annoying both at the same time .
The short of it is , good steel is good & bad steel is bad .. But without testing , how will you know ?
Oh well , killed off a few hours of my time today ! Learned something I did , so not a waste of time .
Education is never a waste of time .
 

old4570

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h

Herbertz 420 with a 18 degree bevel

Looks like the edge did roll @ 200 slices ..
My finger nail could not detect the roll , so it must have been small .
But a quick gentle 3 pass leather strop brought the edge back to slicing paper .
So I am guessing a roll ...
Previous result was a 140 , now 200 with a relatively cheap 420SS knife .
 

old4570

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Enlan EL-08 @ 18 degrees ( 8cr13mov )

250 slice fail with a rather harsh roll ..
I did pick up on the roll from about 100 slices ..
Edge stropped back strong .

250 , I don't remember this knife coming close to 250 @ 22 degrees ..
And I dont recall a roll @ 22 degrees either ..
 

old4570

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SRM 7096 12c27n @ 18 degrees
Edge roll champ ..
The paper picked up something from 50 slices and by 150 slices it was a fail .
So many things to complain about this knife .
It's bolted together really nice , but just poorly designed and with not so great blade steel .
Just disappointing all over !

Next knife ! Marttiini 7 ...... The bad one !
No seriously , this one blows chunks !
My first one was sourced local 2nd hand , and it just slices .. ( was it a 680 fail )
Anyways , I tried to find another in Oz and - nope !
So this one came from WhiteMountain ..
And it looks the same , feels the same , but not even close on slicing the same .
Has a freshly ground edge , 18 degrees ( maybe ) .. Last knife in this little adventure !
 

old4570

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Last knife in this series ... Marttiini 7 ..
I put a 18 degree bevel / edge on it and
250 fail with what looks like a rolled edge ..
A quick wood strop brought the edge back , so I am guessing a roll even though my finger nail didn't detect one .

So what was all this about .

I standardized at 22 degrees for my edges .. ( For testing )
Even playing field ..

But this does not push , to see what the blade steel is capable of ..
Maybe a little like driving your car at 50 miles per hour ... And seeing what sort of mileage you get ( more miles the better ) .
Anyways .. These knives came out of my Knife Junk Box ( what I considered junk knives )
Some knives took 18 degrees and some did not .
And all the knives stropped back , some more easily than others and a few needed compound .
What I need to do is pick a better knife , and try this experiment with what I might consider a good knife .
 
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